MY opinion, as Palin ups the rhetoric, saying Obama's health care plan is 'evil' and will make "death panels" that deny care (DESPITE the fact that insurance companies already effectively decide who gets transplants or not)
Posted by kluciole at 8/7/2009 9:45 PM 
Categories: Politics, Conflict, opinions, Justice, History, Journalism, Economics, Health, Luciole Press, Hope, Human Rights, Science
Categories: Politics, Conflict, opinions, Justice, History, Journalism, Economics, Health, Luciole Press, Hope, Human Rights, Science
Do people NOT realize, honestly, that bio-ethics committees have to decide who on a list of people in need of organs will actually get the transplant they need? They already have to go through a list of pros and cons, taking into effect your age, background, life experiences, number of children, etc., besides your medical history, and must weigh the fact that there are too few donated organs for those who need new ones. A science teacher of mine years back put us students into groups and gave us a list of candidates with criteria, life information, and more, and we were 'given' a few available organs to distribute to the group (mindful of the fact that the decision was life or death and many of the people on the list who were not given the transplant fast enough would expire before another organ was available). It made me feel that being on one of these committees was a true nightmare, let alone how it feels being the person so desperately in need of that organ. And this happens every day, with every insurance company. Is it considered better/safer because it is "not the government" or "free market"? What does that even truly mean to us as sick individuals or concerned loved ones?
Panels already must decide who gets what medications (I have received denials on meds I need), or other services, including surgeries. Let us not forget that medical panels/board committees already have to vet potential patients before they confer the ability to someone of being COVERED by an insurance policy, and MANY of us never make it that far due to pre-existing conditions. If you as a patient do not get coverage and cannot get access then to many of the things you desperately need care-wise, then effectively you are in a potentially life or death situation.
While we all need to discuss the potential pitfalls of any plan of overhauling of the health care system, I TRULY hope that people do not become needlessly hysterical about some of this rhetoric. Not that they should not voice their concerns; ABSOLUTELY they must. But suggesting you must not support this plan or you will die or your loved ones will be euthanized is as bad as saying if you vote in an election for the other candidate, then we are all going to be bombed.
My opinion,
Karen Bowles
Editor ~ Luciole Press
Self portrait. Karen Bowles
FILE - In this Aug. 29, 2008 file photo, shows Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Palin abruptly announced Friday, July 3, 2009. Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama's health plan 'downright evil' Friday Aug. 7, 2009 in her first online comments since leaving office, saying in a Facebook posting that he would create a 'death panel' that would deny care to the neediest Americans.
(AP Photo/Stephan Savoia,File)<:od>Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'
The noisiest Republicans seem the craziest. There are sane conservatives but they're drowned out by Rush, Beck, Palin and their ilk. It's a great pity.
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I agree, and it is a loss for everyone of any viewpoint when that kind of thing happens
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Obama seems to be facing some sort of early crisis. I expect he will survive; I hope he will triumph.
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Evil???? Oh dear lord. I just read a link to a Washington Post article on this very issue, ie the lies Republicans are dishing out over Obama's reform. We can't go on the way things are. What on earth's name do the Republicans want??
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Well usually, Pris, I think they seek money and health for the rich and guns for the poor in a sort of self limiting population control. The ones in the middle? Oh they just get squeezed for the cash to fund it. What really bothers me is their media coverage and the fact that some people fall for it!
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/staff/bill-adair/
Look at this page. I didn't know about Palin's page, but this page checks the facts of those who are against Obama's bill, and is very objective about its facts.
I'm from Sarah's state and extremely ashamed of her. She has a child with Down Syndrome who has the benefit of subsidized state health care. How dare she dangle that child in front of us. Shame, shame, shame!!!!!
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I'm sorry that you had to read this!!!!! And that a woman would be acting against health care reform for the many of us who DON'T HAVE INSURANCE!! (It's been years since I've been to the dentist... and I just found out that my thyroid is extremely out of whack because my health care is so spotty...)
((hugs))
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I am just so bummed to be from the same state as this woman ... : ( ... but she's not the only one, I heard an interview with a "nice stay-at-home mom" from Texas on NPR last night and just about barfed, excuse my language....
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Palin, like so many of the silly Evangelistic politicians, will always make use of the word "evil" to try to create a kneejerk response among the unthinking and the uncaring sleepwalkers of our world.
That is one of the downsides of the monotheistic monopolies who seem to behave as if they own the patents of their God and, by extension, on the definition of "good".
This seems to be a desperate but often effective tool in the United States judging from the number of individuals and politicians who overuse it but, in fact, it usually creates the opposite reaction in other parts of the world and makes the accuser look pathetically unintelligent and morally suspect.
Palin is an absolute gift to the tabloid media since she can always be relied upon to create just the kind of shock-horror headlines which appeal to those who are swayed by their emotions, their superstitions, their prejudices and their craving for sensationalism and do not truly value either reason or un-common sense.
Once that becomes clear then it can become more apparent why such a concerted effort is being made to strategically dumb-down our culture as much as possible and on every possible level.
That is why the currency of paranoia is so often couched in the ecclesiastical rhetoric of the Dark Ages.
It is widely used but is essentially over-valued in the long-term and will earn those who make use of it the scornful laughter of future generations.
Bush and Blair are a case in point.
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I think that the other point that deserves to be made is that the United Kingdom, for one, has had a fully comprehensive National Health Service for over 60 years now and there are similar medical facilities in other parts of Europe.
For anyone to ignore these facts and to try to generate an atmosphere of panic clearly demonstrates that the level of rhetoric in American politics has been effectly downgraded to the level of the delusional or the educationally subnormal.
It was very refreshing to see how the attempt by the Republican Party to play the gender card was met with fierce opposition from women who were not going to support a candidate based on her biology.
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Go back and read the papers and comments in the mid thirties when Roosevelt was working on Social Security, in the mid sixites when Medicare was passed and now. All you have to do is changed a few names and the verbage is the same. If you want to know who has been gouging the system the worst, look for the people who are shouting the loudest. They ... Read Morehave theirs and to hell with the rest of you. Their fear is that their ox is about to be gored. What they don't realzie is that a few months ago someone hit the reset button on the computer and we really are getting to look at things in a different light. Part of our problem is that these folks control alot of money, a lot of the mass media (Fox) and they know how to use it. What for we can hope for is that the flood gates have broken and that Mr. Obama and the Clintons and a large group of people who surround them also understand this process. They want Sara Palin and Rush Limbaugh to be front men for these reactionarys.
sam
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Excellent points Karen. I am amazed that you even went through such an excercise in school that taught such a heavy lesson. Wow. It gave you insight. Last night I saw GOP commercials in my state announcing what a life is worth in the U.K. under their health plan, (about $ 24K), and I sneered at the tactic. In my opinion Sarah Palin is evil to the ... Read Morecore. We already have two forms of 'socialized medicine.' Medicare and Medicaid.' I have both. I will be honest and tell you finding a doctor who will take Medicare is a bit of a challenge. Finding one who will take Medicaid is almost impossible. Only a few doctors who are actually practicing medicine to help heal and not just for profit will even see you. A friend of mine lost her mother to breast cancer because Colorado Medicaid would not approve certain treatments. She is a nurse at a local hospital. Her mother was a hairdresser all her life. So she did not have insurance. The system is broken. My current general practicioners charge Medicare over $200 an office visit. They are overbilling Medicare so they can get reimbursed more. It is unethical. Also I only get to see nurse practicioners. Never a doctor. Honestly, I am a little scared of a new plan. I know what we have doesn't work. But it has saved my life many times. I cannot count the times I have been in C.C.I.C.U.
I would not be here today if I did not have Medicare. I am hoping to see a new plan that does not ration care. Allows me to have the medical care I need and does not over charge the American people. I am willing to work for the kind of change I want to see for myself and others in this country.
What we have isn't working well at all. The new plan must improve healthcare. From my experience, that wouldn't be hard to do and certainly not evil.
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The best, and most telling comment I heard was from a lady who shouted to a Congressman 'keep the government's hands of my Medicare." When he tried to explain that Medicare was a government program, she refused to listen. Medicare claim procedures set the prices the insurance companies use, and they like that because it gives them someone to use a ... Read Morethe "bad guy." In 1974 Congress passed ERISA which created the means for many employers to provide health care and pension plans. To shout at these meetings that the government always does it wrong is simply grandstanding.
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anything Palin disagrees with or doesn't understand, she deems evil. it saves her from having to actually do research and try to discuss the actual points and merit of an issue.
Medicare has had its issues, but it is proof that we can indeed have public health function in this country. as for the over billing... it's not as rampant as people ... Read Morethink, and the fact is there is a billing schedule - you can charge as much as you like for a type of visit or procedure - you're not getting a dime more than the schedule. period. don't shoot me, but i used to work in the appeals and grievance department of a medicare replacment HMO. i know this system well, i know the flaws, and i know that it can work very very well for the majority of people, and there is a process for assisting people whose issues are not being dealt with... it can be expanded upon (and of course like anything else improved along the way).
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I got Medicare through disability after four years of this illness drained my financial resources. Medicare has worked for me. The doctors say it doesn't work for them and yes, fewer and fewer take patients with that plan. Over in one of the wealthy west coast Florida cities nearly every doctor has gone the 'concierge' route, ie, you pay them ... Read Moreanywhere from 1500 to 5000 a year just to be your doctor, then your insurance or Medicare pays for the regular visit or the tests. Supposedly you get more time and attention per visit for this amount a year. This is scary. If Medicare could be worked out as a standard plan for everyone, as it is, but in a way that doctors either can't or don't need to abandon it, it would work. Doctors also need monitoring on needless billing. When my mother had open heart surgery, she only needed her surgeon and her internist. Instead, a parade of doctors who did nothing popped their head in the door , looked at her chart, scribbled in it and charged Medicare.
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When (W) Bush was president we were all Republicans and a few crazy leftists spoke out against his regime. Now we're all socialists and a few crazy extremists on the right want to be heard. Whether it's about health care, education or whatever we're dominated by what gets said on CNN, Fox News, Good Morning America, etc. It seems to me the most coherent vision in America comes from the desire for a strong dollar in a stable expanding economy.
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We live in dangerous times.
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We lived in more dangerous times when George W. Bush was President. There were a number of us who elected Al Gore as our President. Now with a new president our country is faced with a home grown threat of terrorism from groups of Americans no longer in power. You need to examine this issue very closely because it relates to everything we are ... Read Moreseeing happen in our country today. The Republican party is out of power, adjust.
Next, I ask you to define socialism. It is a word that is being incorrectly thrown around today, as is Nazism. So if you can find a definition that puts these two different perspectives into their correct context. I would invite you think before you spout them. Those of us you think are the "few crazy leftist" are now the majority, and in power. So enjoy the ride. We are rebuilding the country almost destroyed by the Bush/Cheney years, and would have been most certainly destroyed by McCain and Palin.
"Divided we fall, United we will stand"....you choose.
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47 Million people have no Health Insurance at all. People are dying because of it and it is Bankrupting the system. Hospitals are closing because of E.R. rooms are full of people needing non emergency care who can't pay for it. Most, if not all, cannot even afford to see a Dr. It is a disgrace for the richest Country in the world. Medical care ... Read Moreshould be a right not a privilege. I find it interesting that those opposing a change are the first to run to the Government when they need it. This can be via a Bankruptcy, the U.S. Mail, Police Protection, even trash collection.- and how about the Corporations taking Billions of Government Dollars in a second for "bail out"' monies. Where where their objections to Government intervention then? I find it absurd that when someone qualiies for S.S. Disability (not an easy task) they have to wait 2 years to be covered by medicare. They are sick enough to qualify for disability but can't see a Dr. for 2 years? it is a disgrace!
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I agree with you Bob. Medicare and Medicaid are socialized medicine and at times it is pretty grim to get the medical care you need. But it is there when we would have nothing but the grave. What I am finding is that people who oppose Obama's healthcare program do not even know that Medicare is a government program. Some people just cannot wrap their little minds around this fact. BTW, I had to wait the two years before Medicare kicked in and I nearly died in that time. I agree, it is a disgrace. More shameful is that my current medical provider charges me over $200 for an office visit so they can recoup what they feel is enough from the program....and I only see a nurse for 7 minutes. Truly a disgrace.
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I like the idea of health care for everyone at least as much as I like the idea of trash pickup once a week for the community, and I think no one has a right to it but look at the practical benefit. More healthy people means more people at work, more people being productive at work, etc. As for whether Obama's health care plan will push the U.S. ... Read Moretoward socialism I don't know, I'm not an economist. I'm just trying to talk about what I see with what vocabulary I have. I realize we're not "all" socialists just like when W was President we weren't "all" Republicans - but that's how it seemed at the time because of what gets said on, for instance, CNN, Fox News, Good Morning America, etc. And anyone who wants to dissent from that appears somewhat "crazy" because as free as speech is it doesn't free us from the high-school level of thinking that many of us never get beyond (present company excluded).
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do people not realize this is a business, no matter who runs it?
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It's difficult to comment on anything said by Sarah Palin. I find myself torn between trying and/or deciding to ignore the words out of the mouth of someone who operates out of a base of fear and attempting to deluge her with facts which she can't seem to absorb or deal with in a rational manner. Having worked in health care for 15 years, one of ... Read Morethe things I've been most shocked by and learned from is the patient's inability to advocate for themselves. I believe our system, as it stands is shot. However, if one takes a strong stand, operates from a position of employing the services offered - it is possible to get what one needs for themselves or another. I do believe health care is a right. I cannot conceive of only the wealthy being able to provide sustained preventative care for themselves. I think we're all a little afraid of what we do not know or understand. Labeling someting with buzz words like socialism helps to exacerbate this sense of fear.
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that makes sense
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The bottom line is we already have what we have so much fear toward. The only difference is that, at present, it's delivered in the ER which winds up forcing the insured and monied to pay for those who have gone before them who could not. In the end, health care cannot be denied when someone shows up in the ER. The follow up may be shoddy but the immediate issued is going to be served at ten times the cost of an office visit.
The next time, you're in the ER (God forbid) take a close look at who's keeping you company. Only about 25% of those with you are in true crisis or they wouldn't be sitting with you for hours in the waiting room. The rest are there with children, who do not have a regular pediatrician and whose cough has probably turned into strep throat. ... Read MoreSomething a $65 office visit and a $10 antibiotic would have served as cure. Now it's going to be a $1200 ER room charge, a $250 fee for the medication because of how hospital delivery systems work and a $500 charge for the ER physician. The rest, are usually the mentally ill or socially compromised who, for years (since the Regan Admin put them all out on the streets), have found their treatment for all kinds of psychosis in the ER's of our hospitals.
And finally, whenever a social construct reaches the place of critical mass and "crisis" becomes the operative word - it is easy to become afraid. Just think of the last time your boss revised the floor plan of your work space and the level of discomfort felt at a leader's decision that another way of doing business would be to the the groups ... Read Moreadvantage. We've reached this same crisis in healthcare and in many other areas such as education and the sustaining a global economy. As always, the initial reaction will be of fear or distrust of the unknown. We're no longer in a position of making small changes to the status quo but are being asked to consider the reality of a significant paradigm shift - particularly in a society where the disparity between the wealthy, middle class (if it even still exists) and the poor is enormous. It is huge. As far to the left as I lean, it causes me concern over the initial days, maybe years, of the shift to a more universal concern for our population. What seems clear to me is that the day has come and it is now.
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I truly appreciate everyone's comments, and commiserate with you on your experiences navigating the medical maze... there is much food for thought here and I hope people continue to speak out about their experiences, hopes, needs, concerns, and more...
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evil!? (sounds to me like she's piggy-backing off someone else who liked to throw around that idiotic word around so freely).
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